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doods
08.02.23, 03:29 PM
Saan po bang part ng misa dapat kantahin to.

Alexander
08.02.25, 06:11 AM
Doods,

Offertory song yan dre.

doods
08.02.25, 01:51 PM
Doods,

Offertory song yan dre.

Yaks mali,kinakanta na namin ito sa communion.:(

Salamat, Sir Alexander :)

Alexander
08.02.26, 10:03 AM
Wala namang masama kung nakanta nyo na sa Communion, kasi isa itong awit ng Papuri.

Yung Lyrics nga lang nya ay yung dinadasal ng Pari ukol sa mga handog na tinapay at alak at tumutugon tayo ng "Kapuri puri ang Poong maykapal, Ngayon at magpakailanman"

Kung pamilyar ka sa kantang... "Blessed are you Lord God" at "Kapuri-puri" ka ng Himig Heswita, yun ang mga kamukhang awitin nyan.

Next time nyo na lang kantahin sa offertory. Cheers

vengie_vidal
08.02.26, 11:11 AM
Kinakanta rin po namin yan sa offertory..kaso sabi po medyo di daw pwede po kantahin yan ..di ko po alam kung bakit..pang pari lang po "daw" yata yan..di ko po sure... pero makulit po kami kinakanta pa rin namin sa mass...hehehhe

Alexander
08.02.26, 12:05 PM
Tama ka Vengie, dahil ito'y presidential / presider's prayer, dapat ang pari ang kakanta ng part nya at sa tugon lang congregation or choir.

Pero kung tanunging nyo ang Pari at pinayagan naman kayo sa kadahilanan na di sya capable sa pagkanta... then pwede.

Pero kung sinabi naman nya or ng kinatawan nya (like liturgical commission or Worship Committee), marapat din naman na tayo ay sumunod... hehehe pasaway :D

vengie_vidal
08.02.26, 11:34 PM
oo nga po kuya alex, dapat nga sumunod...hehheehhe..dapat mauna mga pari...hehheehe..then tyo... atsaka dapat tlga mkipag coordinate muna sa pari tungkol sa mga songs.. Cge kua alex try ko sumunod na.. THanks

Yna Suello
08.05.23, 10:31 AM
Maganda nga sana kung pari nag magli-lead, sasagot lang ang mga tao. Pero kung dito sa amin, hindi papayag si father. Aminado syang di sya singer e. Hehe. Kesa maligaw daw ang mga tao, wag na lang daw. Hehe. :D

allanbrindabu
08.09.25, 01:50 PM
strictly speaking, ang text ay presidential prayers meaning only the priest can say it.

Alexander
08.09.26, 05:59 AM
allanbrindabu,

I have to say Yes and No...
Yes... it is a presidential prayer pero I have to say NO to the part that "only the priest can say it". Meron dun part na kailangan na mag respond ang tao ng "Blessed be God forever" o "Kapuri puri ang Poon ngayon at kailanman"

See my previous response :)

Tama ka Vengie, dahil ito'y presidential / presider's prayer, dapat ang pari ang kakanta ng part nya at sa tugon lang congregation or choir.

titopao
08.09.26, 09:17 AM
Time for a guidelines check, courtesy of the General Instruction on the Roman Missal (http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter2.shtml) (GIRM) and Musicam Sacram (www.adoremus.org/MusicamSacram.html) 8)

First, when do we refrain from singing and listen attentively when the priest prays or sings a prayer? Musicam sacram says:

14. The priest, acting in the person of Christ, presides over the gathered assembly. Since the prayers which are said or sung by him aloud are proclaimed in the name of the entire holy people and of all present, they should be devoutly listened to by all.

There's that word "preside". MS says, the prayers that the priest says or sings aloud are the parts where everyone should listen (and may qualifier pa na "devoutly").

But which prayers are these exactly? For clarity, here's how the GIRM defined presidential prayer:

II. The Different Elements of the Mass

]The Prayers and Other Parts Pertaining to the Priest

30. Among the parts assigned to the priest, the foremost is the Eucharistic Prayer, which is the high point of the entire celebration. Next are the orations: that is to say, the collect, the prayer over the offerings, and the prayer after Communion. These prayers are addressed to God in the name of the entire holy people and all present, by the priest who presides over the assembly in the person of Christ.43 It is with good reason, therefore, that they are called the "presidential prayers."

(Note: Sec. 30 is about adding introductions before each prayer, and is hence omitted here)

32. The nature of the "presidential" texts demands that they be spoken in a loud and clear voice and that everyone listen with attention.44 Thus, while the priest is speaking these texts , there should be no other prayers or singing, and the organ or other musical instruments should be silent.

33. The priest, in fact, as the one who presides, prays in the name of the Church and of the assembled community; but at times he prays only in his own name, asking that he may exercise his ministry with greater attention and devotion. Prayers of this kind, which occur before the reading of the Gospel, at the Preparation of the Gifts, and also before and after the Communion of the priest, are said quietly.

So, keeping the above in mind, if we are to follow the order of the mass, here are the prayers at the Litugy of the Eucharist (Section/S. numbers refer to the GIRM section):

* S. 73-76 - The Preparation of the Gifts - Not included in the definition of presidential texts. The preparation begins from the act of offering the gifts to the altar, to just before....
* S. 77 - The Prayer of the Offerings - this is an oration, hence it's presidential.
* S. 78-79 - The Eucharistic Prayer (from the "Lift up your hearts" responsories up to the final doxology, also known as "Through Him, With Him [and] in Him...") - presidential test

Where does "Kapuri-puri Ka" (or "Blessed are You, Lord..." in English) fit in? Is it considered part of the "prayer of the offerings" and, hence, a presidential prayer?

According to the GIRM:

[I]The Prayer Over the Offerings

77. Once the offerings have been placed on the altar and the accompanying rites completed, the invitation to pray with the priest and the prayer over the offerings conclude the preparation of the gifts and prepare for the Eucharistic Prayer.

In the Mass, only one Prayer over the Offerings is said, and it ends with the shorter conclusion: Per Christum Dominum nostrum [translation: "Through Christ, our Lord"]. If, however, the Son is mentioned at the end of this prayer, the conclusion is, Qui vivit et regnat in saecula saeculorum. ["Who lives and reigns forever and ever"]

The people, uniting themselves to this entreaty, make the prayer their own with the acclamation, Amen.

Hence, it's very clear that the prayer over the offering--which is one of the presidential prayers and rightfully belongs to the priest---is the prayer the priest says after the "Kapuri-puri" part. The Prayer over the Gifts begins after the priest says "Pray, brethren..."---the "Pray, brethren..." is a bridge between the end of the preparation of the gifts and the start of the Prayer over the Gifts. (In case you didn't get that, re-read the 1st paragraph of section 77.)

"Kapuri-puri/Blessed are You...", if you noticed isn't even defined as part of the Prayer Over the Gifts even if there are parts that, as some of us may know, should have a part recited by the priest. In fact the GIRM says some mass parts led by a priest can even be led by a cantor or can even be sung by the choir as a whole. For example: the Kyrie (S. 52), the Gloria (S.53 says a cantor may even be permitted to sing the line "Glory to God in the highest" in place of a priest, but it also allows the entire community to sing the whole song from the top) and even the dismissal/"Go, the mass is ended" (S.90c can be said by either the priest or a deacon).

In fact, MS encourages singing of the responses:

16. One cannot find anything more religious and more joyful in sacred celebrations than a whole congregation expressing its faith and devotion in song. Therefore the active participation of the whole people, which is shown in singing, is to be carefullyc promoted as follows:

(a) It should first of all include acclamations, responses to the greetings of the priest and ministers and to the prayers of litany form, and also antiphons and psalms, refrains or repeated responses, hymns and canticles.

But then again---to the delight of the ultra-strict "active participation"-ists, for lack of a better term, it continues:

(b) Through suitable instruction and practices, the people should be gradually led to a fuller -- indeed, to a complete -- participation in those parts of the singing which pertain to them.

(c) Some of the people's song, however, especially if the faithful have not yet been sufficiently instructed, or if musical settings for several voices are used, can be handed over to the choir alone, provided that the people are not excluded from those parts that concern them. But the usage of entrusting to the choir alone the entire singing of the whole Proper and of the whole Ordinary, to the complete exclusion of the people's participation in the singing, is to be deprecated.

Active participation is a different type of beast and deserves its own debate (I think there's a different thread on it), but for the sake of argument: Does it mean then that if "Kapuri-puri" is to be sung, the people should not be exempted?

Acc. to the GIRM:

74. The procession bringing the gifts is accompanied by the Offertory chant (cf. above, no. 37b), which continues at least until the gifts have been placed on the altar. The norms on the manner of singing are the same as for the Entrance chant (cf. above, no. 48 ). [i]Singing may always accompany the rite at the offertory, even when there is no procession with the gifts.

What's on the said Section 48? It's the guidelines for the Entrance Song---which, acc. to S.74, also applies to the offertory. Here's what it says:

48. The singing at this time is done either alternately by the choir and the people or in a similar way by the cantor and the people, or entirely by the people, or by the choir alone. [Some portions applicable to the US omitted here]

If there is no singing at the entrance, the antiphon in the Missal is recited either by the faithful, or by some of them, or by a lector; otherwise, it is recited by the priest himself, who may even adapt it as an introductory explanation (cf. above, no. 31).

Hence, the offertory can actually be sung by the choir alone. Actually, nagulat nga ako re-reading this portion: I didn't know that it's permitted to have a cantor soloist in the Entrance song, much less simply reciting the entrance antiphon (as listed in the Lectionary book). Parang gusto ko nga tuloy subukan one time sa chapel namin na pakantahin ang isang entrance song with a soloist :P hehehehehe

So my conclusion, however unbelievable it is for others: acc. to the GIRM, "Kapuri-puri Ka" is not a presidential prayer because, given the guidelines, the priest can choose to pray it to himself. If the priest were to be overly strict, he will have to wait for the offertory song to end before doing the preparation rituals just to make sure that all the responsories will be responded to by the people

Also note that the MS says:

36. There is no reason why some of the Proper or Ordinary should not be sung in said Masses. Moreover, some other song can also, on occasions, be sung at the beginning, at the Offertory, at the Communion and at the end of Mass. It is not sufficient, however, that these songs be merely "Eucharistic" -- they must be in keeping with the parts of the Mass, with the feast, or with the liturgical season.

The italicized first sentence is the basis why "Kapuri-puri" can be sung in the mass. It doesn't actually discourage it.

Side note: This is also the basis for substituting other songs for the offertory in which a song need not be a literal interpretation of the mass texts---it clearly says "some other song can be sung...at the Offertory" as long as "they must be keeping with the parts of the mass, with the feast or with the liturgical season.". This is why I cringe when some people say, "kelangan yung kanta sa offertory may word na "offer" or "alay" or "handog" (or even the words "bread and wine") kasi dapat tungkol sa pag-aalay yung kanta and would be so fanatical against some choirs who don't agree with that, wala namang sinasabi na "kailangan" literal na literal na nakabase sa texts ng misa ang offertory. If you ever wonder why "Pag-aalay ng Sarili" ("Minsan lamang ako daraan sa daigdig na ito...") is even permitted in the offertory (esp. during Lent) even if it doesn't have the words "alay" or "handog" on its lyrics, this is the basis for it. There's no such requirement that offertory songs should have any words about the act of offering...it is encouraged, however (and "encouragement" is different from "requirement", bukod sa spelling [for the pilosopo-types out there :P ]), lalo na kung ito ay nakaayon sa tema o panahon.

Just my P0.02 8)

chitto
08.09.26, 06:41 PM
kung ke RC's Kapuri-puri lang ang pag-uusapan, it was a commissioned work, approved by Liturgical Commission and was composed as an offertory song and not as presidential prayer - i'm sure kasi SATB ang areglo (tama b? basta me soli part pa nga yata ang babae e so definitely hindi sya pangpari lang) so pwede syang kantahin ng choir

jeson
08.09.26, 09:06 PM
aoki. .now i know. .

hannie
09.07.29, 12:21 PM
We use this as one of our offertory song. Actually, ang title lng nito sakin is "Kapuri-puri Ka".

knightdom
09.08.24, 02:26 PM
magandang offertory song ito

mike2121
09.11.05, 11:27 PM
may pyesa ako nito..pero hinde ko pa cia naaral....narinig ko palang cia..





mike2121, you may notice that I've edited your post with the blue texts... please read our rules regarding the use of text language in your posts - Alexander

mootboot12
11.10.09, 03:09 PM
No matter how the lyrics of KAPURI PURI KA (or even, BLEST ARE YOU, LORD) differ from the original text, it still points to the reality that it is a "presidential prayer." The priest prays it, hence, only he can sing it. For the choir/assembly/congregation, the response is "Kapuri-puri...." or "Blessed be ...." This is what I learn from Liturgy and the seminary. People who have slight or limited knowledge of liturgy may be easily convinced that singing this song (without keenly reflecting on pastoral-liturgical-musical judgment) is just okay or alright.

mootboot12
11.10.11, 05:28 PM
The phrases are reserved for the priest alone. The congregation will have then to respond "Blessed be God forever"

aaronveloso
12.04.20, 08:55 PM
Offertory namin siya kinakanta. May isa pang version nito kung di ako nagkakamali, kay Fr. Nemy Que.

nhins1011
13.08.17, 12:42 AM
Meron po b s inyong nakakaalam ng magandang site name makukunan ng mga midi pls. Help nmn pro or kung Meron kayo pa share nmn pro pls. E2 pro email add ko: ninosalenga(at)gmail(dot)com. first time ko pro dto sna matulungan pro ninyo ako. Tnx po

Alexander
13.10.15, 12:34 PM
nhins1011, if you strive to be active, you'll find what you've been looking for. Welcome to the board.